HOI IV - Open Beta Update II

Generals!Open Beta AnnouncementOpen Beta Update IBest to leave your feedback for this specific beta version in this thread. Bugs go in the bug report forum. You can also start a separate thread, just make sure to reference this open beta and mention something like [open beta] in the title.I’m Zwirbaum, Game Designer for Hearts of Iron, and this time around Open Beta arrives a little bit earlier - on Thursday, instead of the usual Friday! (Good Friday in Sweden is a Bank Holiday). Because of the faster release of this update than normal, this means that it will spend less time in the oven than usual. Most of my focus right now will likely continue on tweaking the submarines, and their detection & stealth mechanics. I would gladly appreciate letting me know - how does the balance feel when using or fighting against submarines? (Of course ideally after trying out Open Beta Update II).Responses to my question last week were definitely interesting, and gave me a lot of things to think and ponder about - on the topic of the hyperspecializations vs flavourful / more-multi role designs. Thanks for the answers and discussions you created on this topic!I wish all of you a Happy Easter/Holiday if you do celebrate it, otherwise have a great weekend everyone! :)Thanks for reading, and until next time, farewell!/ZwirbaumIf you want to join the Open beta, but are unsure how to, check out the steps that are covered in the very first Open Beta announcement HEREThis beta client is Musketeer v1.17.5.2.cf14 (63d3)Open Beta Update II Notes (Changes from previous OB build to current OB build)GameplaySubmarine Detection Formula Tweaked SUBMARINE_REVEAL_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER reduced from 0.1 to 0.075. This reduces the passive reveal chance for submarines in combat by around 25% SUBMARINE_REVEAL_TORPEDO_FIRING_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER increased from 1 to 1.1. Submarines firing Torpedoes will have a higher chance to be revealed in combat by around 10%, unless they have Torpedo Reveal Chance modifier. Submarines firing torpedoes without any modifiers should be ~17.5% less likely to be detected than in previous Open Beta Update. SUBMARINE_HIDE_TIMEOUT reduced from 20 to 8. This means that the submarine after being revealed will stay visible for 8 hours instead of 20. SUBMARINE_REVEALED_TIMEOUT reduced from 16 to 12. This means that if the submarines are on the defender side (their taskforce was attacked) - they will stay revealed at the start of the combat for 12 hours instead of 16. SUBMARINE_REVEAL_ON_MINIMUM_POSITIONING reduced from 2 to 1. This means that on 0% positioning Submarines will get +100% Visibility instead of +200% Visibility Shallow Waters now increase Submarine Visibility by +33% instead of +100%.Developer Commentary: Purpose of these changes is to reduce overall how often submarines are detected and sunk. With them spending less time revealed, they may actually have a chance to escape heavily damaged instead of being in 99.9% cases destroyed. The detection rates are also reduced a bit, while on top of that reducing the impact of 0% positioning and shallow waters on the submarines. Low Positioning Penalty and Shallow Waters was especially crippling for the early submarine types as they start with a relatively high visibility, thus +100-300% swing can mean between going from ‘25’ visibility to ‘50-100’ visibility, while later submarine types, especially equipped with better modules and/or having MIO Traits would see their visibility barely increased in the absolute numbers.Early Submarine HullSub Visibility25 → 22Strength10 → 15Basic Submarine HullSub Visibility22 → 20Strength20 → 22.5Improved Submarine HullSub Visibility20 → 18Advanced Submarine HullStrength35 → 37.5All Carriers (Carrier Conversions, Escort Carrier, Basic, Improved, Advanced, Modern and Ice Carrier Hulls)Surface Detection26 → 20Sub Detection5 → 1Carrier Deck Space ModuleCarrier Surface Detection5 → 8Carrier Sub Detection2 → 4Ice Carrier Deck Space ModuleCarrier Surface Detection6 → 10Carrier Sub Detection2 → 4Escort Carrier Deck Space ModuleCarrier Surface Detection2 → 5Carrier Sub Detection5 → 7Aggregated Patch Notes(*Changes from Live to current OB build)Developer Commentary: Carriers will no longer enjoy the ‘free’ extra 4 points of Sub Detection and 6 points of Surface Detection, compared to most of the other ships. Their deck space modules however have been powered up, thus providing higher bonus to the Surface and Sub Detection, granted that the Carrier has planes on them. For both Escort and ‘Regular’ Carriers, two decks with full flight compartments will be enough to offset the loss of the ‘free’ Surface Detection and Sub Detection, while any extra deck will provide increased detection stats over the previous stats. It does however make the deck modules even stronger for the time being, thus making them even more “hyper specialized”. We will see in the future if it is possible to make their alternative options more enticing. Naval Reform Spirit was

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Generals!

Open Beta Announcement
Open Beta Update I

Best to leave your feedback for this specific beta version in this thread. Bugs go in the bug report forum. You can also start a separate thread, just make sure to reference this open beta and mention something like [open beta] in the title.

I’m Zwirbaum, Game Designer for Hearts of Iron, and this time around Open Beta arrives a little bit earlier - on Thursday, instead of the usual Friday! (Good Friday in Sweden is a Bank Holiday). Because of the faster release of this update than normal, this means that it will spend less time in the oven than usual. Most of my focus right now will likely continue on tweaking the submarines, and their detection & stealth mechanics. I would gladly appreciate letting me know - how does the balance feel when using or fighting against submarines? (Of course ideally after trying out Open Beta Update II).

Responses to my question last week were definitely interesting, and gave me a lot of things to think and ponder about - on the topic of the hyperspecializations vs flavourful / more-multi role designs. Thanks for the answers and discussions you created on this topic!

I wish all of you a Happy Easter/Holiday if you do celebrate it, otherwise have a great weekend everyone! :)

Thanks for reading, and until next time, farewell!

/Zwirbaum


If you want to join the Open beta, but are unsure how to, check out the steps that are covered in the very first Open Beta announcement HERE

This beta client is Musketeer v1.17.5.2.cf14 (63d3)


Open Beta Update II Notes
(Changes from previous OB build to current OB build)

Gameplay

Submarine Detection Formula Tweaked

• SUBMARINE_REVEAL_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER reduced from 0.1 to 0.075. This reduces the passive reveal chance for submarines in combat by around 25%
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEAL_TORPEDO_FIRING_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER increased from 1 to 1.1. Submarines firing Torpedoes will have a higher chance to be revealed in combat by around 10%, unless they have Torpedo Reveal Chance modifier. Submarines firing torpedoes without any modifiers should be ~17.5% less likely to be detected than in previous Open Beta Update.
  
• SUBMARINE_HIDE_TIMEOUT reduced from 20 to 8. This means that the submarine after being revealed will stay visible for 8 hours instead of 20.
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEALED_TIMEOUT reduced from 16 to 12. This means that if the submarines are on the defender side (their taskforce was attacked) - they will stay revealed at the start of the combat for 12 hours instead of 16.
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEAL_ON_MINIMUM_POSITIONING reduced from 2 to 1. This means that on 0% positioning Submarines will get +100% Visibility instead of +200% Visibility
  
• Shallow Waters now increase Submarine Visibility by +33% instead of +100%.

Developer Commentary: Purpose of these changes is to reduce overall how often submarines are detected and sunk. With them spending less time revealed, they may actually have a chance to escape heavily damaged instead of being in 99.9% cases destroyed. The detection rates are also reduced a bit, while on top of that reducing the impact of 0% positioning and shallow waters on the submarines. Low Positioning Penalty and Shallow Waters was especially crippling for the early submarine types as they start with a relatively high visibility, thus +100-300% swing can mean between going from ‘25’ visibility to ‘50-100’ visibility, while later submarine types, especially equipped with better modules and/or having MIO Traits would see their visibility barely increased in the absolute numbers.

Early Submarine Hull
Sub Visibility
25 → 22
Strength
10 → 15

Basic Submarine Hull
Sub Visibility
22 → 20
Strength
20 → 22.5

Improved Submarine Hull
Sub Visibility
20 → 18

Advanced Submarine Hull
Strength
35 → 37.5

All Carriers (Carrier Conversions, Escort Carrier, Basic, Improved, Advanced, Modern and Ice Carrier Hulls)
Surface Detection
26 → 20
Sub Detection
5 → 1

Carrier Deck Space Module
Carrier Surface Detection
5 → 8
Carrier Sub Detection
2 → 4

Ice Carrier Deck Space Module
Carrier Surface Detection
6 → 10
Carrier Sub Detection
2 → 4

Escort Carrier Deck Space Module
Carrier Surface Detection
2 → 5
Carrier Sub Detection
5 → 7

Aggregated Patch Notes
(*Changes from Live to current OB build)

Developer Commentary: Carriers will no longer enjoy the ‘free’ extra 4 points of Sub Detection and 6 points of Surface Detection, compared to most of the other ships. Their deck space modules however have been powered up, thus providing higher bonus to the Surface and Sub Detection, granted that the Carrier has planes on them. For both Escort and ‘Regular’ Carriers, two decks with full flight compartments will be enough to offset the loss of the ‘free’ Surface Detection and Sub Detection, while any extra deck will provide increased detection stats over the previous stats. It does however make the deck modules even stronger for the time being, thus making them even more “hyper specialized”. We will see in the future if it is possible to make their alternative options more enticing.

• Naval Reform Spirit was changed from +15% Naval Experience Gain to +10% Naval Mastery Gain (This was actually done last week, but I forgot to add it to the Patch Notes)

Gameplay

• Reworked submarine detection formula, added three new defines related to the submarine detection, SUBMARINE_BASE_STEALTH_VALUE, SUBMARINE_REVEAL_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER, SUBMARINE_REVEAL_TORPEDO_FIRING_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEAL_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER reduced from 0.1 to 0.075. This reduces the passive reveal chance for submarines in combat by around 25%
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEAL_TORPEDO_FIRING_DETECTION_MULTIPLIER increased from 1 to 1.1. Submarines firing Torpedoes will have a higher chance to be revealed in combat by around 10%, unless they have Torpedo Reveal Chance modifier. Submarines firing torpedoes without any modifiers should be ~17.5% less likely to be detected than in previous Open Beta Update.
  
• SUBMARINE_HIDE_TIMEOUT reduced from 20 to 8. This means that the submarine after being revealed will stay visible for 8 hours instead of 20.
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEALED_TIMEOUT reduced from 16 to 12. This means that if the submarines are on the defender side (their taskforce was attacked) - they will stay revealed at the start of the combat for 12 hours instead of 16.
  
• SUBMARINE_REVEAL_ON_MINIMUM_POSITIONING reduced from 2 to 1. This means that on 0% positioning Submarines will get +100% Visibility instead of +200% Visibility
  
• Shallow Waters now increase Submarine Visibility by +33% instead of +100%.
  
• Reduced minimum naval hit chance from 2% to 0.5%
Balance
• Naval Reform Spirit was changed from +15% Naval Experience Gain to +10% Naval Mastery Gain
Supply ConsumptionCarriers1.2 → 0.8Battleships0.8 → 0.56Battlecruisers0.48 → 0.32Heavy Cruisers0.4 → 0.24Early DestroyerNaval Range1500km → 2000kmBasic DestroyerNaval Range1800km → 2500kmService Manpower325 → 300Improved DestroyerNaval Range2000km → 3000kmService Manpower400 → 350Advanced DestroyerNaval Range2500km → 3500kmService Manpower500 → 400Improved CruiserNaval Range4500km → 4000kmService Manpower1200 → 1000Advanced CruiserNaval Range4000km → 4000kmService Manpower1400 → 1200Torpedo CruiserNaval Range4000km → 3500kmService Manpower960 → 900PanzerschiffService Manpower1800 → 1200Hull IC cost3500 → 3000 → 2800Surface Visibility22 → 20 → 18Coastal Defense ShipNaval Range1500km → 2000kmService Manpower1800 → 1000Hull IC cost3500 → 1500Surface Visibility20 → 18Pre-Dreadnaught HullNaval Range2250km → 2500kmBasic Heavy HullService Manpower5200 → 4300Improved Heavy HullService Manpower6000 → 4650Advanced Heavy HullService Manpower6000 → 5000Modern Heavy HullService Manpower6000 → 5000Hull IC Cost4000 → 3600Cruiser Carrier ConversionNaval Range4000km → 3000kmBattleship Carrier ConversionNaval Range4000km → 3000kmService Manpower5000 → 3500Basic CarrierNaval Range3000km → 3500kmService Manpower4500 → 4000Improved CarrierNaval Range4000km → 4250kmService Manpower5000 → 4500Advanced CarrierService Manpower5500 → 5000Modern CarrierService Manpower6500 → 6000Escort CarrierHull IC Cost1500 → 1250Service Manpower2500 → 1500Super Heavy HullService Manpower9000 → 7000Naval XP Gain for the Following Mission Types(This value is expressed as a ratio compared to Naval Training XP Gain Rates, which is currently set at '1'.)Patrol, Convoy Raiding, Convoy Escort, Mines Planting, Mines SweepingIncreased to 0.2Strike ForceIncreased to 0.5Removed Resource Cost from most of the naval modules (guns, deck armor, hangar decks)(Armor Schemes as well as Anechoic Tiles will still have resource costs associated with them)
Resource Cost Changes
Cruiser Armor SchemeSteel: 0/1/1/2 → 0/0/1/1Chromium: 0/0/1/1 → 0/0/0/1Battleship Armor SchemeSteel: 1/1/2 → 1/1/1Chromium: unchangedSubmarine Carrier Hull3 Steel → 4 SteelAdvanced Destroyer Hull4 Steel → 3 SteelEarly Cruiser Hull1 Steel → 2 SteelBasic Cruiser Hull2 Steel → 3 Steel → 2 SteelImproved Cruiser Hull2 Steel → 3 Steel + 1 Chromium → 3 Steel + 0 ChromiumAdvanced Cruiser Hull3 Steel → 4 Steel + 1 Chromium → 3 Steel + 1 ChromiumTorpedo Cruiser Hull2 Steel → 3 SteelPanzerschiff Hull2 Steel → 3 Steel + 1 ChromiumCoastal Defense Ship Hull3 Steel → 2 SteelPre-Dreadnought Ship Hull1 Steel + 1 Chromium → 2 SteelEarly Heavy Ship Hull1 Steel + 1 Chromium → 3 Steel + 1 ChromiumBasic Heavy Ship Hull1 Steel + 1 Chromium → 4 Steel + 1 Chromium → 3 Steel + 1 ChromiumImproved Heavy Ship Hull1 Steel + 1 Chromium → 4 Steel + 1 ChromiumAdvanced Heavy Ship Hull1 Steel + 1 Chromium → 5 Steel + 1 Chromium → 4 Steel + 1 ChromiumModern Heavy Ship Hull6 Steel + 3 Chromium + 2 Tungsten → 6 Steel + 4 Chromium + 2 Tungsten → 5 Steel + 2 Chromium + 2 TungstenSuper Heavy Ship Hull1 Steel + 1 Chromium → 5 Steel + 3 Chromium → 5 Steel + 2 ChromiumBasic Carrier Ship Hull3 Steel + 1 Chromium → 5 Steel + 1 Chromium → 4 Steel + 1 ChromiumImproved Carrier Ship Hull4 Steel + 1 Chromium → 6 Steel + 2 Chromium → 5 Steel + 2 ChromiumAdvanced Carrier Ship Hull4 Steel + 2 Chromium → 7 Steel + 2 Chromium → 6 Steel + 2 ChromiumModern Carrier Ship Hull5 Steel + 3 Chromium → 8 Steel + 3 Chromium → 6 Steel + 3 ChromiumIce Carrier Ship Hull5 Steel + 2 Chromium → 10 Steel + 2 Chromium → 8 Steel + 2 ChromiumEscort Carrier Ship Hull2 Steel + 1 Chromium → 3 Steel
UI
• Tooltip updated to indicate that the control ratio required for having dominance in a sea zone is 60% (was 66%)

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